Extrasensgate

Mikhail Lidin against "supernatural selection"

Alexander Sokolov, XX2 century

Mikhail Lidin is a video blogger who has been fighting obscurantism for a long time, and very successfully: his videos exposing the machinations around the TV show "Battle of Psychics" have collected millions of views.

A few days ago, the first part of the investigation with the intriguing title "Extrasensgate" appeared on the Lidin channel. In this project, organized with the support of the Sci-One channel and According to the Harry Houdini Award, Mikhail promises to reveal the ins and outs of the "esoteric services" market and show the scale of the media myth about omnipotent psychics that has arisen through the efforts of TV in recent years. Alexander Sokolov asked Mikhail a few questions.

Alexander Sokolov. Mikhail, what's wrong with people believing in miracles? Someone reads horoscopes, someone watches the battle of psychics. Maybe people relieve stress, have fun. Why fight such an innocent occupation?

Mikhail Lidin. I will answer with a quote from James Randy: "Belief in the supernatural is a slippery slope. Sometimes it is harmless, sometimes it is very dangerous." It is dangerous for health, for the wallet, the psyche, life. Considering the extent to which this belief has gained in our age of scientific and technological progress, the consequences can be sad and dangerous for society in general.

Belief in the paranormal has become so habitual that no one is surprised when people claiming to have some kind of supernatural gift, some astrologers, appear at various social events and try to influence public life. There are examples when this mystical genre media scene merges with representatives of the authorities.

A. S. I recently watched the movie "The Last Hero", they showed a sorcerer – charlatan who fools the audience in some TV show "Battle of Magicians" with the help of simple tricks. But then they show us real sorcerers. Of course, this is a fairy tale, but the idea is clear: there are charlatans, but somewhere there are real magicians.

M. L. Yes, this statement is also part of the media myth about psychics.

A. S. Do you seriously see this as some kind of purposeful campaign on the part of certain organizations?

M. L. I don't think anyone cares about this topic at the very top, that they purposefully send instructions to subordinates. I just think that those who are lower are hooked on this trend, it is convenient and profitable for them to spread it.

A. S. There is an opinion that belief in the irrational sits deep in the human subconscious, so there is no way to defeat it. If people want to be deceived, there is no need to interfere with them… Let natural selection work.

M. L. I hear such phrases very often. Allegedly, the subconscious mind controls us. But this is far from the case. We are people of culture, not only biological beings controlled by animal instincts, a person can develop, form, change his worldview, can become more rational. About the phrase "people want to be deceived." This is also a very superficial look at the psyche of people, how they make decisions, why they believe. There is a whole section of psychology that deals with cognitive distortions. This is an extensive question, and it does not come down to the fact that people just "want" something.

Regarding natural selection: I would say it is "supernatural selection". By the way, there is another show with this name, just started, from this series, the host is a Groin. On TV3, this is the lair of all these mystical projects. So, the bottom line is that it is incorrect to give primacy to some biological process. Natural selection? We are not talking about the biological prerequisites of belief in the paranormal. This is a question of culture, traditions, environment first of all. If we live in an environment in which misconceptions and myths are cultivated, picked up and spread (belief in Vanga, in the Battle of Psychics, or simply belief in the paranormal) – then in this environment, of course, there will be many people who believe in all this. Therefore, those who believe in the supernatural will not die out tomorrow. It will be different: scammers will enrich themselves, they will deceive even more, mislead people even more. And the consequences will be sad. Therefore, the statement: let's give everything up to some kind of selection is simply the removal of social responsibility.

A. S. And what goal do you set with your project? What do you want to achieve with this investigation?

M. L. I just started the Extrasensgate project, the first part came out with such general strokes. And then there will be more specifics and more facts, figures, connections. What for? First of all, I want to try myself in a new role. It's no longer interesting to simply review some kind of paranormal program, such as the "Battle of Psychics". Of course, this caused a lot of hype. See for yourself how many views on YouTube. But I want to do more serious things. To reveal the scale of this problem and try to convey even to those who do not watch TV how wide the problem is. The situation got out of control a long time ago.

A. S. Do you have insiders, "infiltrators" among psychics?

M. L. Yes, there is, it's true. But I can't name them, otherwise they will cease to be insiders. However, I will name one. There was a recent story, I even published an interview. The recording is bad, with subtitles, with Yulia Daletsky. He is a participant in the 15th season of the "Battle of Psychics", entered the top five. He saw their entire kitchen from the inside and then, recently, leaked all the information. He was a participant in another TV show, as he was married to a famous witch. A TV show about their lives and about the alleged investigation of this very witch. Julius, of course, had access to all the information: how scripts are written, how projects are made, how information is extracted to create the appearance of these investigations, this whole farce. And the people who turn to the program are real. With real problems: someone's husband is missing, someone's child has died, and similar performances are staged at his grave. The cases are real, but a farce is being played out in front of them. Julius revealed it all, sent me correspondence with the editors of the TV show.

A. S. And what's next? Did everything continue? What was the reaction of the hosts of the program?

M. L. The entire program "The Diary of a psychic with Tatiana Larina", season 2, was removed from the channel's website. They are no longer shown, as far as I know. I don't know if there will be in the future. And they also deleted the first 2 seasons of the "Diary of a Psychic", but with a different clairvoyant. The third season is now underway. There is evidence that Daletsky's interview hindered this business to some extent. I know that Daletsky himself was threatened.

A. S. Can you estimate the volume of the market for psychic services? What scale are we talking about?

M. L. In money I can't name yet. There is indirect data, we need to sit down and count. To evaluate the media market – what it was and what it has become. There was at first one program, started in 2007, "The Battle of psychics". Then there were two of them on one TV channel. And then there were 30 of them, on different channels. Of course, not all projects were fired, some were closed. And surprisingly, the same heroes are constantly flashing there, they are also shamans and fortune–tellers as experts. These people conduct their own receptions, can personally advise, can open a whole center. Someone is even trying to treat, to engage in healing. I cannot say yet how many such centers exist, but in the next part of the investigation I will prepare the figures and show it, it will be in January.

The owners of such centers send their people to these programs, negotiate with the producers. There is evidence of that. Or, on the contrary, no one knew this psychic, and after the transfer, he unwound. It's not even necessary that he reached the final, he still becomes a famous person. They take him on new shows, he opens his own company. He begins to promote his proteges. And so on in a circle.

Sometimes they come together, these characters. In the next program I will show in great detail one story of this kind. I can't tell you the details yet. Consider how many seasons and participants there were, and each participant produces at least three more. And everyone charges an average of 12 thousand rubles for admission. This is only the price that you can see on his website. But when a person comes to him, he will be treated so that he gives not 12 thousand, but 36.

But this is only one part of this market. There is another market – call centers, which are advertised on small TV channels, like TDK. You may not even have heard of such channels. Their main victims are pensioners, single people. They are being promoted for such money! No one can defeat this problem, oddly enough. A few years ago there was a story with the famous Merlion center, it was closed, a lot of people were tied up. The organizer found almost golden toilet bowls at home. But this is only one center. And there are many others left, they are still active. And sometimes you can see their characters in these TV shows with psychics.

There's a lot of money there, hundreds of millions, maybe. There is such a figure, it is constantly repeated by the media and even some deputies: the market for psychic services is estimated at 30 billion rubles. I don't know where it came from, but it could be true. Another figure: we have 800 thousand magicians, healers, psychics in our country. The sources of the figures, however, are unclear. Everyone refers to the Institute of Sociology of the Russian Academy of Sciences, which allegedly conducted such a study several years ago, but no matter how much I searched, I could not find the primary publication. If this is true, then, of course, the finish.

A. S. In the first video, you said that the "media myth about psychics" is 10 years old. But psychics appeared on TV screens back in the late 80s.

M. L. Yes, there was a surge of Chumak-Kashpirovsky, there was a fascination with the paranormal, there were all sorts of magazines and newspapers, there were such people in my family, and I even got carried away myself. But then there was a recession. Of course, the phenomenon has not gone away, but in the early 2000s it was not on television on such a scale. There were separate broadcasts. In 2005, TNT launched the first mystical project "Inexplicably, but a fact" with Sergey Druzhko. But I don't remember him having experts like sorcerers in the third generation. The Druzhko show closed in 2008, and just about then the "Battle of Psychics" started. Season 1, there was an expert Mikhail Vinogradov, who now has his own center, where the winners of the 1st seasons take part. And it all started. Up to this point, the projects were not so iconic and did not lead to the flourishing of this industry.

A. S. Did something in your investigation surprise you, shock you, was it unexpected?

M. L. I can start telling things that I would like to leave until the release of new parts of the investigation. When I was just reviewing the "Battle of the Psychics" a couple of years ago, I didn't think that all this could have such a scale. But even then I thought: why do we have on TV there are no normal programs that would be engaged in the fight against illusions? I have a feeling that it is easier for TV personalities to make money on what has already developed. And what happened? I started checking and was blown away: it turns out there are more than 30 such programs. This is if you don't count regional channels. I haven't seen them, but I know that similar projects are starting there too. This is a business, media first of all, but it is connected with the consulting business, not entirely honest schemes of taking money from citizens. And it must be supported by someone. Who is "protecting" everything? And then everything came up, government agencies and so on.

A. S. Did you manage to save someone thanks to your revealing activities?

M. L. The investigation has just begun, and it is too early to evaluate its results. If we talk about my past revelations of these telefars , many viewers wrote: Thank you, I've seen the light. "I wanted to give money for the treatment of psoriasis, now I've changed my mind." They wrote that they had lost faith. Or wrote: "I showed my mom/grandmother – they don't believe me. They're watching anyway." And sometimes on the contrary: "mom/ grandma looked, made sure that she was being fooled, and said: why did you show me this, I don't know what to watch now." I hope it saved someone.

Of course, even with my millions of views, I am a drop in the ocean compared to the coverage of TV and the singing press.

A. S. Do you have a team of volunteers helping you? Or are you doing it all by yourself?

M. L. Until recently, I did everything alone. But when the investigation began, I had to involve people who would do the installation, draw graphics and do almost the entire production part. I'm spending all my time on these investigations right now, it's a long, painstaking job. I have to do things I've never done before. Fortunately, the investigation was supported by the Sci-One channel. I hope that sooner or later I will be able to assemble a team.

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