For prolonging life!
"It is necessary for a person to be ageless, like a naked digger"
Their arrival in Russia was not prevented by the difficult international situation. The main objective of the conference, its organizers – the charity foundation "Science for Life Extension" – consider the increase in human life expectancy. "Newspaper.Ru" talked with the president of the foundation Mikhail Batin.
– Mikhail, you have a reputation as a fierce and implacable fighter against aging. But after all, almost all living organisms age, including humans, and this is a natural process? Does this mean that you are trying to go against nature?
– Well, first of all, you said "almost". So, not everything. There is a phenomenon of super-slow aging in nature, there are organisms that are constantly being updated, for example, hydra. There is a sand turtle whose probability of death decreases with age – this is generally amazing.
– Yes, "Newspaper.Ru" wrote about the hydra, Brandt's moth (bat) and the naked digger, which do not age. But man is a more complex system.
– At the level of genes, we are not so much different from the naked digger or Brandt's moth. Human aging is not fundamentally more complicated than that of other mammals. And then, all the achievements of progress are incredible achievements, whether it's a flight into space, the development of atomic energy, the discovery of antibiotics. We have intelligence, unlike moths, and with its help we want to solve this problem – radically prolong life. There is a genome in each of our cells, and theoretically we can grow from this genome a completely young and healthy person very similar to ourselves. Each of our cells contains information about how to become young, it remains only to use it.
– But with diseases such as cancer, cardiovascular, diabetes, not only old people face, but also quite young people. What arguments do you have that old age is a disease?
– Well, at least those that the incidence of cancer in 70-year-olds is 200 times higher than in 20-year-olds. In all age-dependent diseases, the frequency increases many times with age, growing exponentially. Aging is at the heart of these diseases. We just used to think that it's normal when a person walks badly, sees poorly, hears poorly, thinks poorly – and this is not normal. Aging is a disease, if only because people die from it.
– Actually, people don't want to get old, especially women. And those who have enough willpower, lead a healthy lifestyle, eat right, play sports. And practice shows that, in general, it helps: they get sick less and live longer. So maybe that's enough? Do we need any other special measures to combat aging?
– It helps, but not so much. Even a person who leads a healthy lifestyle does not exclude the possibility of using antibiotics, early diagnosis of diseases, etc. Yes, you need to eat less and move more, but this does not mean that you cannot do something significant, for example, grow an organ, reverse some process. The idea of sufficiency, it's bad, let's go ahead and set ourselves big goals.
– Do people want to live long? Here we conducted a study among Americans in which they were asked how long they want to live. Most chose the limit of 80-90 years. And few people wanted to live up to 120 years. So what should we do about it – "drive humanity to happiness with an iron hand" or educate society to change its position?
– You see, people most often want what others want, which is generally accepted. They don't want to get out of the crowd. Although there would be a cure for old age now, everyone would use it. But this is how people defend their worldview, this is such an all-conquering conservatism. As soon as there are radical opportunities to prolong life, people will immediately want it. People don't give up on technology, they just don't want to think about it.
– No one, of course, will refuse to rejuvenate. But not everyone likes the prospect of living for a very long time. It turns out that these are different things?
– Well, because people imagine a bedridden patient. But our idea is this: let's prolong life as much as we can, and during this time, which we will gain, we will look for ways to become younger. For example, if we develop regenerative medicine and are able to grow organs, it will be possible for a person to replace some organ, and now he is already partially young. It is necessary to learn how to respond to aging in such a way that a person is such an ageless animal as a naked digger.
– There are a lot of theories of aging, and this indicates that aging is a complex complex process in which it is difficult to isolate the main link. And if so, what to influence?
– The basic concept is to stimulate the body's own defenses. In principle, we age slowly, because we repair ourselves quite efficiently. Maybe we need to strengthen this repair a little bit, by 10%, in order to go into a state of non-aging. In general, a person is on the way to a naked digger, on the way to non-aging. After all, when there are no natural enemies, life expectancy increases, and in 10 thousand years a person will live longer by himself.
But you can speed up this path if you stimulate the genes of repair, regeneration or try to deliver the necessary genes. Actually, this is something that already works.
Maria Blazko added only one telomerase gene, and two–year-old mice began to live 10% longer, and one-year-olds - 20% longer. It's just one gene. But about 100 genes associated with longevity are known. We say: let's screen these genes and their combinations. This is one of the ideas.
Perhaps we will create some kind of symbiotic organism, that is, we will influence the microflora, the human microbiome, and here I see a huge potential. I would like to conduct experiments to make our microbiota more useful for us, so that it performs more functions in favor of our longevity.
– What do you think is the most promising of the areas of research?
– There is a general more or less uniform front of research – regenerative medicine, genetic engineering, selection of pharmaceutical geroprotectors, artificial organs, modeling of human brain activity, and all this is quite significant. What would I highlight?
I think therapeutic cloning is very promising, using the mechanisms of embryogenesis that we have for growing a specific organ.
I think that it is necessary to prove this possibility in principle by growing an organ, for example, in a pig. And then learn how to grow an organ without pigs.
– This is what Shukhrat Mitalipov is moving towards.
– Yes, I think he is one of the greatest people in the world. The second is to deliver longevity genes to the body, specifically the genes responsible for the repair of the body: genes for proteolysis, autophagy, DNA repair, regeneration. We are already seeing success with model animals, it remains to increase the scale of this activity. Why are we talking about a combination of genes? Here, for example, is a nematode. Inhibition of an insulin-like growth factor gives a twofold increase in life expectancy. Inhibition of the TOR signaling protein – an increase in life expectancy by 30%. Recently, researchers from the Buck Institute did an elementary thing – they inhibited both at the same time. How much do you think life expectancy has increased? Five times.
And the third thing I would call is the introduction of aging diagnostics into clinical practice. So that we can compare events at the molecular level, at the cell level and at the level of body functions. As soon as we do this, even without having a cure for old age, we will see how this or that method helped us.
Let's start thinking of aging as a disease. 100 years ago Ilya Mechnikov, a Nobel laureate, wrote: "Old age is a disease that can and should be treated." Let's learn how to at least diagnose it. Let's acknowledge this fact. This requires political will and public will.
– The conference will be attended by leading experts in the field of aging and longevity studies. Who would you list as the most-the most?
– They are all absolutely outstanding. Well, Robert Schmuckler Rice – he has the biggest record of increasing life expectancy (nematode – 10 times), we can say that he is the greatest; Brian Kennedy – president of the Buck Institute for Aging Research, a world leader in this field; David Gems – discoverer of many longevity genes; Judy Campasi – studies the molecular causes of aging cells and cell death; Andrey Gudkov, the founder of a company that produces cancer drugs and bioprotective drugs, as far as I know, is going to talk about his amazing discoveries in the field of combating senile cells. We have invited those whom we consider geniuses.
– What do you expect from the conference in Sochi?
– We have the usual tasks and super-tasks. Today, a lot of data has been accumulated in the field of aging research, and we need to get together to sum up some results and decide what to do next. Secondly, we have scheduled a "round table" with investors on the application of existing developments. We want people to look at the projects, see what is on the market today. One of the super–tasks is to make aging recognized as a disease. One letter to WHO will not be enough here.
The main super–task of the conference is to radically reverse the situation so that the fight against aging enters the scientific and public mainstream.
Obviously, the turning point will come, and we, the organizers of the conference, want it to happen in April. I have a full feeling that a critical mass of interest in the topic has already been gained and scientists know what to do. It remains only to start the trigger mechanism. It is historically fair if this happens in Russia.
– I know you don't like the question about the lack of resources on Earth, but nevertheless I can't help but ask it.
– They just troll me endlessly with a question about overpopulation. In fact, it's not that people care about it, especially in a country where the indigenous population is dying out. The fact is that the human brain does not want to leave the psychological comfort zone, and this question is necessary for a person to simply forget about the problem, to preserve his worldview. I think the most important resource is knowledge. If you have the knowledge, you will make an oasis in the desert and grow food.
We don't have a problem of living space – we have the whole cosmos ahead of us. And the problem of energy is also a problem of knowledge. Oil was no energy for humanity, and then it became. Next up is solar energy.
– What prompted you to address this problem?
– A rational view of the world. It's better to be healthy and alive than otherwise. While doing business, I've been doing a lot of social projects. And so I looked at the residents of the Kostroma region – I am a Kostromich myself – and realized that you can change the governor, you can still do something, but nothing will help many people, aging has almost killed him, and quite early. He will have a guaranteed bad life, like most in the country. Only our activity, the fight against aging and death, can give a person new chances.
– Mikhail, how long would you like to live?
– Ideally, it would be infinite to the degree of infinity, that is, never to die. The idea of transhumanism is the expansion of human capabilities through the achievements of science and technology. It's a choice between good and evil. The fight against death is a fight against absolute evil. Although if someone insists on his own death, wants to grow old – this is his choice.
Portal "Eternal youth" http://vechnayamolodost.ru03.04.2014